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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 13:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Q.Q
"I will not nerf the Scrambler Rifle..." -CCP Rattati
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Came in expecting maths. Such disappoint. The problem is that they don't have any maths other than, "Luk at de paper Dps! It so hi!"
It never crosses their small minds that the ScRs DPS barely outdoes the DPS of Standard ARs in practice. I've said it about 75836574 times now. The real DPS of an SCR almost never goes above 475-525, and never above that accurately. CRs can handily outDPS it in practice.
Or that it has the single highest fitting costs amongst all light weapons. Or that it is one of the 4 light weapons that overheats, and is the fastest to do so at that. Or that, amongst the racial rifles, it requires the most player skill.
Nope. None of those things. Just "it duz so muh damage to my sheelds". plz nerf rat!"
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Came in expecting maths. Such disappoint. The problem is that they don't have any maths other than, "Luk at de paper Dps! It so hi!" It never crosses their small minds that the ScRs DPS barely outdoes the DPS of Standard ARs in practice. I've said it about 75836574 times now. The real DPS of an SCR almost never goes above 475-525, and never above that accurately. CRs can handily outDPS it in practice. Or that it has the single highest fitting costs amongst all light weapons, while CRs, which rival it, have the least... Or that it is one of the 4 light weapons that overheats, and is the fastest to do so at that. Or that, amongst the racial rifles, it requires the most player skill. Nope. None of those things. Just "it duz so muh damage to my sheelds". plz nerf rat!" The max DPS of a CR is below 430... And any good scrambler rifle user easily gets above the 500 DPS. And even if it was 475DPS, it's still above any other rifle in the game while having a long range. To me that's the problem. The ScR completely breaks the range vs DPS chart and it has nearly no kick and dispersion (which is perfectly normal for a laser weapon, but added to all the other advantages it's too much). Anyway, if as you say the ScR can't get above 6 shots per second, you shouldn't mind if the RoF is dropped down to 420RPM (7 shots per second)
First of all. The max DPS of the CR is 506.25-556.875, depending on tier. And while it too doesn't benefit from its full DPS, it hovers a LOT close to its maximum than the ScR does to its because the refiire rate of CRs is much lower.
Second of all. Variation and imperfect rhythm are the reasons for the ScR having a RoF that is higher than seemingly required. Some shots might be 0.15s apart, while some outlier shots might be 0.11s apart. By setting the bar so high, the user will never fire faster than the weapon will allow them, and therefor they won't oversample. It is to prevent oversampling completely, basically.
But you are halfway correct. I wouldn't mind a RoF Nerf, so long as it never, ever, goes below 525, and that is the only change...
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Came in expecting maths. Such disappoint. The problem is that they don't have any maths other than, "Luk at de paper Dps! It so hi!" It never crosses their small minds that the ScRs DPS barely outdoes the DPS of Standard ARs in practice. I've said it about 75836574 times now. The real DPS of an SCR almost never goes above 475-525, and never above that accurately. CRs can handily outDPS it in practice. Or that it has the single highest fitting costs amongst all light weapons, while CRs, which rival it, have the least... Or that it is one of the 4 light weapons that overheats, and is the fastest to do so at that. Or that, amongst the racial rifles, it requires the most player skill. Nope. None of those things. Just "it duz so muh damage to my sheelds". plz nerf rat!" The max DPS of a CR is below 430... And any good scrambler rifle user easily gets above the 500 DPS. And even if it was 475DPS, it's still above any other rifle in the game while having a long range. To me that's the problem. The ScR completely breaks the range vs DPS chart and it has nearly no kick and dispersion (which is perfectly normal for a laser weapon, but added to all the other advantages it's too much). Anyway, if as you say the ScR can't get above 6 shots per second, you shouldn't mind if the RoF is dropped down to 420RPM (7 shots per second) First of all. The max DPS of the CR is 506.25-556.875, depending on tier. And while it too doesn't benefit from its full DPS, it hovers a LOT close to its maximum than the ScR does to its because the refiire rate of CRs is much lower. Second of all. Variation and imperfect rhythm are the reasons for the ScR having a RoF that is higher than seemingly required. Some shots might be 0.15s apart, while some outlier shots might be 0.11s apart. By setting the bar so high, the user will never fire faster than the weapon will allow them, and therefor they won't oversample. It is to prevent oversampling completely, basically. But you are halfway correct. I wouldn't mind a RoF Nerf, so long as it never, ever, goes below 525, and that is the only change... When you take into account the minimal burst delay of the CR the DPS is about 430 (I wrote the exact number in another thread but I'm too lazy to find it). But I do agree about reaching that max DPS is easier with the CR. Reducing the RoF to 525 would already be a good start and may be enough as we indeed don't have a clock in the finger. Believe me. I've ravaged the SDE and personally tested the CR to death to find out this true RoF with the delay. Everything points to its absolute maximum RoF being 1125(which ends up being 6.25 bursts per second)rounds per minute, which puts its DPS at the 506-557 range I stated earlier.
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:It is balanced in a way that doesn't make too much sense for a FPS. The notion is that the overheat mechanic keeps it from being too powerful despite having some incredibly "efficient" (Rattati's word) stats for damage, range, a charge shot mechanic, and an increases headshot multiplier. "We averaged it all out and it turns out that the DPS is about the same as most other weapons" is my guess on how it was balanced. Obviously, in an MMO where play is really quite slow such as EVE, that works relatively fine. For DUST, where TTK is about 1-2 seconds, having a high front peak means potentially being able to factor eliminate someone before the overheat mechanic happens meaning that the balancing factor never comes into play. IE, "If Rogues had every cooldown for every fight they would be absurdly overpowered" and then Arena happened.
Is it too powerful? I dunno. I will say this: it is a weapon that is highly skewed towards shields (+20/-20) and is still used quite heavily despite the fact that Armor is generally superior to Shields or is at least used more extensively than Shields. When it was the Bumblebee of death, Explosives and Grenades disappeared in favor of Flux Grenades. The weapon is at least good enough to still be used in an environment that doesn't fully support it, which is nice, but I am still not sure if it is too good.
The ScR has the same headshot multiplier that all other rifles has.
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote: Believe me. I've ravaged the SDE and personally tested the CR to death to find out this true RoF with the delay. Everything points to its absolute maximum RoF being 1125(which ends up being 6.25 bursts per second)rounds per minute, which puts its DPS at the 506-557 range I stated earlier.
Max RoF is around 850. Your numbers mean the burst delay is .01 second, that just doesn't make sense. Anymay, find me somebody able to press the trigger exactly .01 second after the third bullet has been fired. And even if it was the case, a guy able to have a such perfect timing should easily reach 750DPS with a scrambler You are making the mistake that so many have made before. Believe me, I've has some HEATED arguments (to the point that the other guy called on a bunch of their corpmates and shitposted the thread into the trash) with some people about this stupid thing. They should just tell us, so it can be put to rest...
Anyways. The burst length isn't 0.15s, but rather 0.10s The delay is 0.6s, for a total length of 0.16s Not 0.21s.
Think about it. You have 3 rounds spaced evenly apart. The first round is fired the moment you press the trigger, so it takes no time. The next two rounds come consecutively and 0.5s apart. There are only two 0.5s delays between bullets, not three. That totals up to 0.1s per burst without adding the delay. Add on the 0.6s delay, which begins the moment the third bullet is fired, and you have a total refire time of 0.16s.
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2566
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:I think he was pointing more to its kills + efficiency becoming the highest. In theory a bunch of scrubs flocking too it would make sure that it stops even being considered as "slightly op" as he said in another post.
Yup. If more people use it, its Kill/Spawn ratio will go down(due to scrubs), and it won't be the most efficient anymore. If the same amount of people use it, it remains efficient, and has a low usage rate. If less people use it, it would likely be because the skill requirement of the weapon has gone up(a Nerf), and so the Kill/Spawn Ratio will go up(since bars will have abandoned it), but the usage rate will go even further down.
Basically, it is balanced, since it is getting an equal amount of kills compared to the other rifles. Any tweaks will make it OP or UP.
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